time." sorry, ladyies, kim jong-un, kim the younger is taken. the dow is down. i don't know why. >>neil: s rise meeting face to face with her toughest critics and benghazi and it does not go too well. >> we are significantly troubled by many of the answers we got, and some that we didn't get and if you don't know what happened, just say you don't know what happened. people can push you to give explanations and you can say you don't want to give bad information. >>neil: senator john mccain is leader and only here. welcome, everyone, i am neil cavuto. if ambassador susan rice thought

today's meeting would clear the air on benghazi she was mistaken but senators john mccain, senator graham nowcy they are more troubled than ever and that is spelling trouble if the woman who might just be our next secretary of state. the same person who initially blamed an antimuslim film for fueling a spontaneous demonstration and not a planned trust attack, that left u.s. ambassador chris stevens and three our americans dead and today the senators are demanding answers and arizona republican senator john mccain who was at meeting, senator, you didn't seem to get a lot out of that. >>guest: no, i did not. i thought you were the sexiest man alive. >>neil: i was annoyed by that, i was encouraged that he is a bit chunky. this could be paving the way, but enough about me.

>>guest: maybe you were separated at birth. >>neil: this is going to be a tough interview, senator. it could have been nice but you went the other way. the frustration, she called for the meeting, right? >>guest: yes. >>neil: to talk to the republican leaders and it seemed to boomerang. what happened? >>guest: well, some of the answers were hard to understand and some of the information she had access to, clearly, they contradicted the statement that she made and, by the way, today, after all this time, she issued a statement and in that statement she said she had given false information to the wrong, to the american people about the spontaneous demonstration which obviously never took place. for example, she also said al qaeda was decimated. that is pat. ly false. i asked why that statement

should be made to the american people and she really had no good answer for it. there was lots of classified information that she gets briefed on that indicated this was not a hateful video that sparked a spontaneous democrat congratulation. i still don't understand why anyone who believe when you come with mortars and rocket propelled grenades how that could possibly be viewed as a spontaneous demonstration. there are a lot of layers to this. >>neil: we tried for ambassador rice and we got a statement from her office, saying we wish that we had perfect information days after the attack. the intelligence often, the assessment has evolved. >>guest: that is another big question, why would it have

evolved? there were people who were survivors who were flown to germany who were interviewed by the f.b.i. they told, they said, absolutely, there was no demonstration. yet for a couple of weeks the intelligence community seemed to be wrestling with intelligence and other classified information they had which led them to wait two weeks before they could come out and say that there was no spontaneous demonstration, that this was a planned attack by al qaeda. again, who changed the talking points used by ambassador rice? why? under what circumstances? why was reference to al qaeda left out? there are so many things that have happened. the interesting things finally, we knew in hours of all the details when we got bin laden, they making a movie out of it

and we are ten weeks later and finally our ambassador to the united nations who appeared on every national sunday show is now saying that she gave false information concerning how this tragedy happened as far as the spontaneous demonstration triggered by a hateful video. >>neil: the president got upset by you and others saying if you have a problem, you should go after him and you pointed out prior that she was the person they put out on all the week end shows after the attack. was she the right person? >> she admitted herself and the president said that she had nothing to do with benghazi. that is another question that needs to be asked. why was she sent out if she had nothing to do with benghazi? but, also, there was clear

classified information that was a terrorist attack from the beginning. look, how could the f.b.i. possibly not tell the c.i.a. what the survivors said two days after the tragedy, and that is, there was no demonstration? it's mind mindboggling. >>neil: she could be the president's chinese to succeed hillary clinton as secretary of state. >> well, everyone can be come natured and go through the hearings and debate and discussion but i would be hard pressed. >>neil: would you support john kerry? >> let's go through the process. john kerry came a whisker of being president of the united states, and that's working if his favor. but i would love to hear him make the case. i don't have anything in his

background like this tragedy in benghazi that would make me really want to carefully examine the whole situation. >>neil: you know him pretty well and there was talk he wanted you on his ticket, do you know if he is frustrated he could be passed up for the secretary of state position? >> i think john has been very careful about his views on this situation. and appropriately so i have not heard him express any specifics. >>neil: if i could move on to grover norquist and some of the colleagues taking a different tact on the pledge. what do you think of this? >> i admire grover norquist.

he has a role to play in the search air i don't of the republican party. i have always been against ethanol subsidies, sugar subsidies, all of those things that i thought were wasteful and unnecessariful and the result of special interests. i am still opposed to rate increases. all of my career i have again to the floor and fault against the unwarranted subsidies that were directly a result lobbying rather than the national good. >>neil: you disagree when he says getting rid of those breaks or allowances, without corresponding spending cuts, that breaks the pledge? >>guest: no i don't if it breaks the pledge or not but i am opposed to the tax rate increase because i think it hurts the economy and i think most economists that i respect believe that but throughout my career i v gone to the floor

time after time on the appropriations bills and the farm bills that have the important earmarks, the terrible and egregious subsidies which i have opposed all along and i am sure grower has been well aware of that. >>neil: he has in conversations, he has said that but what concerns him is that republicans seem to be running around with the tail between their leg after the election and acquiescing on revenues and letting the democrats stream roll them and he says they will pay in two years. do you feel threatened? >>guest: will, republicans have to be for some things and we need to be for things and for spending cuts. we need to be for entitlement reform. that has to be done if we are ever going to be serious about this debt issue, i don't think we should disrespect grover norquist any more than i believe we should disrespect the heritage foundation or any

others. i respect them. we just don't always agree. >>neil: what he is saying, senator, he says that there is much more propensity to come up with creative ways to raise revenue than to cut spending. and that it is disproportionately so and republicans are going along with this like idiots. >> well, the negotiations have not seriously begun and people have staked out various positions so we with have to look at the products of the negotiations. >>neil: will we avoid a calamity? >> i'm not sure. i don't think we will because i think the markets will start to tell us we to do something because the devastating impact of not achieving something but i can tell you one possible scenario and i don't like it, and that is we kick the can down the road, suspend everything for

x number of weeks or months. another area that concerns me if we don't put entitlement reform on the table we are not very serious. we know that medicare and social security are going to grow. >>neil: thank yous senator. normally, you know with every prominent guest i write them a thank you note and you just let me know, you don't like it, you don't --. >>guest: no, it is not that. i don't want you to take your time that you have to devote to and talking to grover norquist and all the other things. that is all. i do appreciate the opportunity of being on your show and i think you do a great job and you are a fund guy. >>neil: it is fun to cut out magazine letters circumstances. john mccain, senator, and former presidential candidate. thank you. go for the hikes, just keep your hands off entitlements, unions are sending that message to

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>>neil: union members descend on capitol hill for a push for more spending, not less. leaders do not want the lawmakers to touch entitlements but they want lawmakers to hike taxes on the rich. and senator rand paul says the republican colleagues better grow a backbone. senator, good to have you. i raised that with your colleague, john mccain. i don't see that. you could make a point on raising taxes on the rich and the president won that argument or you could argue to what degree but it seems like every single item republicans are own negotiating on how much to raise revenue. >>guest: i made a commitment that i didn't think raising taxes was a good idea, we were spending teach.

i am perplexed that a fiscal cliff occurs when you sequester or cut federal spending. i thought that was good. i thought we needed to cut more spending and i don't understand why cutting spending or sequestering spending is a fiscal cliff. the other half of the equation on taxes, i don't think raising taxes is good and much seems to agree. that would be tax-geddon but, what about raiding taxes on 40 percent of the economy? that is what we are talking about, it is only 1 percent of the people but 40 percent of the nation's income. >>neil: what do you think of your colleagues who do not see that or they are scared after the election and they seem to be just folding like cheap suits? >>guest: they should be reminded they took a pledge, they campaigned on it and they said they were not raising taxes and they stayed is what we believe in. we believe in stimulating the economy by leaving more money in the economy, more money in the

states, more money in the private sector, and that is our philosophy. >>neil: you do not by a poll that says the majority of americans are for sticking it to the rip. >>guest: if you talk to people and you say, do you understand that your boss employs you, and your boss could be richer than you but if you tax your boss more it could be less jobs, that may not be your job but the person trying to get a job whose business does not expand because the taxes increase. people do get that. the president did run on a class warfare, class envy type of argument but he only got 40 percent of the vote in my state so my state rejected the message. >> the way it stands no with the proposals i have heard and senator john mccain could be right there could be a deal in the final hour, a way to avoid this mess, but most of the stuff i see are concessions on the part of republicans on revenue and not just avoiding a rate

hike but they could feed on limiting deductions that could cost the rich more? >>guest: i am out there on a different limb. we should stimulate the economy by lowering taxes so i am not that excited about revenue neutral. i will tolerate that which means lowering rates and giving up deductions and simi filing the tax code. i am not justing up-and-down and excited about it because it will not stimulate the economy. >>neil: if you leave the rates alone, we will go with the limiting of deductions, but the number of math models, if you actually could leave the rich paying more and others paying more in taxes than if you just raised their rates. >>guest: it is harmful to the economy whether you raise rates or limit deduction. it is revenue being taken from the productive sick tore, the private sector, and given to the nonproductive sector to government so whether it is

closing deductions or raisings rates they are a mistake. when we lower rates we have brought if more tax revenue. what we need is economic growth. you do not is to raise rates you have to grow the economy. we are growing it 1 percent. if we grew at 4 percent we would not have the so-called fiscal cliff. >>neil: what do you think of grover norquist and the easy fix? >>guest: i think he has done a great service to the country in getting so men people to take a pledge because this is some pressure on the people, now to go back on their word and there should be pressure because it is the wong thing to do so grover norquist and americans for tax reform, i worked with him for 15 years getting the state letters to sign the pledge, and it holds people's feet to the fire and to sign this, if they go back on their word they will suffer the repercussions next election. >>neil: thank you, senator.

if republicans telling grover is over are making senator harry reid happy, should that make you worry? who better to ask than grover? tonight, on fox business network. you don't get it? demand it. you don't want to miss this. >> steer clear of the cliff, gouge them at the pump? get ready for real road rage.

>>neil: i am headed off to the city of angels. the ladies can't wait. >> so crazy it is here. >> my heart is pounding. >> he is a very nice man. a lot of fun. >> i am constantly amazed. >> i know the businessman and

the famous names but i want to know what makes him tick. >> brilliance, baby, brilliance, i am coming to town, don't miss a special "your world" and we are back again at on fox business network, lawmakers in washington are pushing if tax hikes and we are going to be if california at highest tax state in the nation to see what the tax hikes might do with a lot of special guests and if you notice they changed the sign too. italian americans unite. >> talk of a gasoline tax hike that has steve moore say washington is adding fuel to the fire but i heard it and i thought it could not be so but there is a real chance. >> i wish i were the chip magnet that you are. >>neil: it is a burden to carry but i try. >>guest: they are talking about a gas tax throwing out automatic sorts of revenue

proposal and i listened to your interview with rand paul they are looking under any rock rather than looking if ways to cut spending. >>neil: that is what worries me. you have written brilliantly about this. i know they lost an election but did republicans also lose their backbone? >>guest: they have gone into the fetal position. i am worried. they did lose the election but they still hold the house of representatives and i don't think the american people want to actually increase it. to give you an example, you ask people about taxing the rich and you ask, do you think they will only tax the rich, a vast majority of americans think when they say tax the rich they will not just tax the rich but tax people like me, too, and that is the fallacy of this idea. another example, the other day, yesterday, in the "new york times", warren buffett had a piece calling for the buffett rule of 30 percent tax on rich people, and even if you do that and even if we pass that law

that raises $5 billion a year, that is .5 percent of the deficit. we cannot get there, get the deficit down without significant cuts in spending. >>neil: the election has consequences and you could argue that a key premise of the president's re-election was i will raise taxes on the rich and he is likely entitled to that, he will likely see that but it is all the other things they are leveraging with democrats do not touch entitlements and putting everything on table it remind me of george bush sr. he agreed to reverse the pledge oh ride -- "read my lips, no new taxes." but the democrats never offered correspondenting spend cuts. we know what happened to him. what happens to those who agree do in the republican party? >>guest: the republican party has to stand for economic growth and it has to stand for

the principle that keeping tax rates low and reforming the tax system is the way to grow the economy. i disagree slightly with rand paul. i am in favor of closing loopholes. i hate them. i call them termites in the tax system but we should use that money to credit a first-class world class tax system that stops exporting jobs. when the president talks about outsourcing and we are all against outsourcing, i hate to see an american job outsourced but how do we prevent that 23 we move to be the highest tax race countries in the world? we are incentivizing businesses to move out of the country. >>neil: well put, good to see you. >>guest: have a great time in los angeles. >> i hope my friends at fox are sit down when they hear this, it could be a shock, president obama didn't invent trillion dollar deficits he inherited them. >>neil: i hope this doesn't come as a shock as my friend the

illinois senator we are now knee-deep in trillions of dollars of more deficits. and larry sabato with simple advice, stop blaming and start fixing. you are saying both parties are to blame but the attack on fox notwithstanding, i am wondering, are democrats overplaying their hand? >>guest: they will have everplayed it if in the end it results in another deadlock and the same is true for republicans. we are at a special moment when we do have an opportunity to solve a lot of big problems simultaneously from the debt to entitlement growth, to the tax reform issue, tax loopholes there are a lot of things that could go into this and this is a very different situation from august of 2011 when we had the big deadlock of the debt ceiling. this after an election. if we can't solve the problems

now, when are we going to solve them? >>neil: i am not encouraged by the smoke signals. senator john mccain was here talking about he is confident that a deal can be agreed to, but i wonder when all i hear is how you can race revenue and not a lot about curtailing the growth in entitlements, close the growth, not much on that. >>guest: that part is not encouraging, but you have to remember it is in the gene code of politicians to posture on both sides. that is what they are good at along with home wood and you are going out to la-la land. >>neil: you are so jealous. just because i won the -- you won the ice cream thing doesn't mean i am going do new wars. and the president can push the tax

the tax rates on the rich but the republicans are creeding more tax grounds on potentially adding to that with limited deductions on the wealthy, or, say, they focus only on deductions there is a scenario where they limit the deductions and write offs and the rich pay more in taxes than they would if they just raised the rates behalf, to where they were during the time of bill clinton? >> and that is why everything is just talk. just talk. >>neil: you think they will have an incredible deal by the end of the year? >>guest: i have told you before, i'm slightly optimistic. you cannot be more than that when it comes to negotiations. >>neil: since the ice cream bet you hedging because i think you know you got lucky and now you hedge a lot. you sound like a tv anchor. >>guest: i don't want do lose a bet but cut while i'm ahead and i am not irrationale. i don't think either the

president or congress wants to become unpopular and congress now is at 18 percent again, do they want to go to system digits? i don't think so. >>neil: grover norquist was here and he will be with me tonight, and there will be hell to pay if those republicans who go along with raising taxes. what do you think of that? >>guest: well, there probably will be in some of the republican primaries, that is another thing that republicans have to balance if they come to some kind of resolution. >>neil: always a pleasure. thank you very much. >>guest: have a great trip. >>neil: the president calling small business owners to the white house over the big stakes in the united states, and we have a business owner he did not call and he has a message for the president. we will put this on tape delay.

>>neil: the president is meeting with small business owners at white house to tell them taxes will be a big part of avoiding the hell and my guest was not invited but he has a lot to stay. small business owner is here. david, why weren't you invited? >>guest: well, are you kidding? all this publicity i have had the last couple of years? my phone never rings. >>neil: you have argued the real pain in the neck is rising, gas rices and rising inflation,

everything that is part your business. and a lot of regulations. and you left taxes out of it that is a big chart of your "hell." do you think that came up with the meeting with the president? >>guest: i hope so. you have heard necessity -- me say the problem with the recovery is the consumer has that extra money. inflation at the grocery store and costs at the pump and that has strapped the middle class to say to the people work day-to-day and don't have that extra money. now, they can talk about raising taxes on the 1 percent, well, that 1 percent is 40 percent of the economy. so you will take some of the additional money out of the economy? those are the people that are spending the extras right now. in our business we do some business with law firms and we do business with the doctors associates, groups, things like this and they buy cakes for

their employees for their birthday programs, you take money out of their pockets, and they have to see their dollars are less less in the wallet. do you think they will tell the wife we are not going to dinner or will they go to the office and say let's cancel the birthday parties we were having once a in. >>neil: i know you are considered always non-discretionary spending but i thought cakes and dessert were at the top of my food pyramid but having said that do you worry that is what happens? it is not being appreciated? the taxes go up and there is sort of a bad trickle down affect and really, it hits the economy hard. >>guest: when you give money to the government, how does it benefit business? tell me that. i have yet to hear how taxing the rich will benefit small business. everyone says small business --.

>>neil: they have a disproportionate share of gain. >>guest: that is right, 17 tax cuts he told me i had and i said where are they? all the goofy things they call "cuts" are not cuts and you have to be in the profit come town have a tax reduction. businesses are out there by the thousands and i am not just crying wolf, talk to anyone. when apple bees is running two for $20, they are doing that to keep the door open. >>neil: what you are seeing, firsthand, from the purchases and the, i don't need to get this but it is nice to have it type of purchase, you are feeling it already without this happening. >>guest: yes. in doubt. my wife came to me because she is a main phone people after

thanksgiving and she said it is the same people order one pie and two dozen rolls. what happens to two or three pies? wealth, that is it. now it is like we will get one pie and if they don't like it we have chocolates. that is the difference in the economy involving at 1 percent or the economy recovering at 4 percent. when you take money out of the consumers' pocket and put it in the pocket of the government, i am sick and tired of the government being santa claus, and what are they going to do with the money? more programs? buy some more votes? it is not going to do anything to the economy. when are working people going to get tired of setting back and listening to this class warfare, and say, it is final for people to work for a living, it is time, let the people be fair, let us have our money back so we

can reinvest it and give our employee as raise for a change. i get tired i could go on forever. we take food stamp cards and we thought people would buy bread and doughnuts. no, they are buying the most expensive birthday cake in the place. the system is out of the whack. >>neil: hang in there. always good to have you. >>guest: thanks for the invite. >>neil: i can see why you weren't invited to the white house but that is okay. thank you very much. >> this sick woman died waiting for a flight home. after two airlines told her she was too fat to fly. are the airlines to blame? the answer might surprise you. [ female announcer ] the humana walmart-preferred rx plan p-d-p gives you a low national plan premium... so you can focus on what really matters. call humana at 1-800-808-4003.

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share "you owe me..." share "just right." the share everything plan. shareable data across 10 devices with uimited talk and text. by htc for $49.99. >>neil: vacationing in hungary , a 445 pound diabetic

got sick, and she wanted to fly home for care but both tell da and klm would not let her on the plane, they said she was too big. now, she is dead. passing away only days later from kidney failure. her husband is suing the airlines for $6 million. are they at fault? my guest says, no, but another guest says they were responsible for getting her home. try this. stacey, you say it was their responsibility? >>guest: the initial airline that soiled her the ticket when they took the money for the ticket had a contract and they had to abide by the contract and by not letting her back on the plane to go home it is a breach of contract. >>neil: they let her on the way and they saw her and they said no. >>guest: they claimed on the way home they could not accommodate her size on the plane and the chair cosmonaut accommodate her.

>>neil: they wanted her to buy two seats. excess he did and they claimed the two seat could thought physically accommodate her but on the same there they could. so, they are liable to breach of contract but not liable for her death. >>guest: i agree they are not liable for her death. her death was a separate and independent act of her not getting on the plane, not getting on the plane did fought cause her death, she went home and to days later died and she did not seek medical care this is her private home in hungary, she was not vacationing so she decided not to seek care. >>neil: you don't see a difference teen not getting on the plane can dying? >>guest: no i do thought see the consequence in the law of not getting on the lay without seeking medical care her dying at home. >>neil: i want to be fair and we tried to reach out to klm and they said delta did everything possible to assist the family and when they were unable to

board her in hungary it was determined she could fly on the larger aircraft out of prague but our records indicate that delta staff in prague repeated attempts for an hour to board but they were unable to get her on board the aircraft. >>guest: this is my point. we talked about this a couple of years ago with homeland security issues and if there is a safety concern for other passengers, the one passenger that did buy a ticket it has to be asked to leave the plane. in this case, the airline determined her weight, she was so heavy --. >>neil: but it was not an issue on the way there. >>guest: the way the seats were set up they could handle her but on the way home she was a safety issue. it is a contract. >>neil: why do you say it is a contract? >>guest: when they pay if the flight the airline has an obligation to fulfill the service and provide the flight. so, obviously, they --.

>>neil: but they do that sight unseen and you show up --. >>guest: they difficulty on the way going so, now, they have an obligation to get her back and, unfortunately, the flights on that path going back could not accommodate her physically but the airline has to make an accommodation. >>neil: if they did everything they could to find a flight or plane are they beyond reproach? >>guest: in this instance aside from the death being separate and apart from boarding the airlines were making attempts to make arrangements for her. >>neil: they did what they could but not enough. >>guest: they did not do enough. this coe have rerouted her on other airlines plight and make accommodation to get her on a flight that could physically accommodate her. >>neil: what about the fact they tried to get her on for an hour? >>guest: they made a good faith effort. >>neil: does that absolve them

legally? >>guest: they are not liable for the death but they are liable because they did not give the service for the breach and they owe him accommodations do make him whole. >>guest: for the return flight but for her death not $6 million. her death was separate and apart. possibly a refund on the ticket, on the ticket, as you are a cuts inform, you are not entitled to full service. you are entitled to the airline making that choice at the end. >>neil: thank you, ladies and after you hear some gossip from a realtor, you will hit the roof.

>>neil: the housing recovery could stick. home prices rising for the sixth straight month, 3 percent higher

in december than the year before. before you race the roof, a realtor has a warning about washington, dc, that could floor you. katrina, what are they doing? >>guest: well, they are actually looking at potentially cutting the mortgage deduction. now, if my opinion this is another example of president obama and congress trying to take money away from people's pockets in order to fund government spending when if reality the revenue that would be brought in by cutting away the mortgage deduction wouldn't make a dent in reducing the national deficit. in fact, the approximate savings for cutting the mortgage deduction would be about $83 billion and that would only help run the government for 8.3 days and would have reduced the national deficit not one bit. >>neil: if you, a lot of people buy a home or second home

with the idea they have the write off to enjoy, the mortgage deduction, there is a $1 million cap on underlying mortgage for principle interest but if they go after that, what do you see happening? >>guest: well, as the real estate market is going to do well and warren buffett said it is spark the economy and the government will interfere with that? many willing a this is only going to affect the rich, the people that will be most affected by this potentially would be the lower to middle income bracket families because they are the ones that --. >>neil: what if you limit it just to the rich, just for the limit and scam them. >>guest: the luxury market will always do well regardless of the economy. the luxury real estate market will do better than all the other factors and sections in the marketplace, so, do i think that rich people are thought going to buy a home because the

mortgage deduction is possibly going to be eliminated? no. will it affect the lower to middle income brackets? absolutely. nonpolitical economics will also tell you that prices will go down if less people are buying homes, there is more supply and less demand so another vicious ike kill, the less homes, the less contractors, less electricians and it affects unemployment so we are doing well but request think the government should now interfere with any aspect of the real estate market that is helping move the economy along. >>neil: remember the balanced approach to the fiscal cliff? i don't know what happened.

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opposite that irish guy. relax. he reruns throughout the night. catch him anytime. tonightbe, for this, you have to make the time. you won't believe what we exclusively uncovered on the tax stuff on what i like to call the financial factor. relax, bill, i patented that name. but, but, may i give you all an early nibble ahead of the fbn show. this is free. washington is nibbling at our wallets but not their wallets. this is a balanced approach. not so balanced. think about that. look at all the creative ways they have come up with to raise revenues but it's like they have collective congressional writers block when it comes to cutting spending. even think slowing spending. talk of a hike in federal gas tax. whacking deductions for higher income earners beyond raising the overall tax rate. going after the mortgage deduction again. looking at closing tax loopholes. my, the things they come up with. when it comes to getting more money to washington. but not nearly the same for

control spending in washington. not when the union members descend on capitol today. and others demand social security be put off next year. here is what i'm seeing if the waning weeks of the year. tax hikes now, maybe, maybe spending cuts later, increasingly though unlikely. is washington finding more ways to feed the beast instead of entertaining the beast? this will come up next year. when they get to entitlement reform and tax reform. that is me saying i'll exercise and eat right. some day i might. this day i'm just not. here is the difference, my friend. i'm the one whose shirt buttons pop when i fail. we're the ones losing their shirts when they fail. look what they are doing in hollywood before my trip out west. these guys, you know, thank you.